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John Mayer: Alright, let's get started.

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John Mayer: Hello everybody, my name is john mayer and I'm the executive director of Cali the Center for computer assisted legal instruction and have to make sure I'm wearing my I'm not a robot and it is checked. So I'm not a robot. This is a live person talking to you.

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John Mayer: We have a great class today. Thanks for coming to session six. The title of this session is different mix of techniques for skills based seminars or large classes.

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John Mayer: We have three excellent speakers with us. We're so happy to have them a first step will be Renee Nicole Allen. She's an assistant professor of legal writing at St. John's University School of Law.

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Brittany Raposa: And

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John Mayer: She's one of the most recent members or she's, she's part of our most recent fellowship of law school success and it's free 2020 she taught legal writing

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John Mayer: Following her will be married. The France, the ice tea, professor of intellectual property law un LV William Boyd School of Law.

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John Mayer: She's been a member of three Kelly fellowships. She's authored lessons and copyright law trademark and patent law and it's bringing 2020 talk

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John Mayer: Intellectual Property license and entertainment law speaking is a large class speaking to the large class perspective and our closing speaker. We Brittany repost.

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John Mayer: So she director and professor of bar support at Roger Williams University School of Law Distinguished Teaching professor of the 2019 2020 academic year.

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John Mayer: She teaches the mandatory in house bar prep course that students taking their third year as well as the second year skill scores and it's spring 2020 she was teaching a seminar. When the school move to remote instruction. So with that,

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John Mayer: It's all up to you, Renee. I hand it off.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Great, thanks. JOHN thanks for the introduction. Thanks. All 296 of you who are here. I'm going to share my screen. And while I'm doing that I'm starting my presentation is two truths and a lie.

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Renee Nicole Allen: reflections from teaching an online skills course so dead if you will put the pole up and asking two truths and alive. Everyone will highlight the lie.

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Renee Nicole Allen: In my own reflects reflections from the spring semester.

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Renee Nicole Allen: You know, give everyone some time to do that. I think the line is pretty obvious.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Dead. Maybe you can let me know when enough results to kind of move on.

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Deb Quentel: Absolutely.

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Deb Quentel: Still watching them come in.

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Deb Quentel: Hi i'm john I'm not certain.

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John Mayer: I can, I can hit the pole.

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John Mayer: I

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Deb Quentel: Know, I know how to end it. I don't know if people are seeing it.

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John Mayer: I was seeing it, but I already answered it. So,

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Deb Quentel: Okay, okay, well,

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Deb Quentel: Renee, let me tell you what the results are some

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Elmer: Sure, if you're seeing what yeah if

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Elmer: I you back so 81% of the people voted. So I'm assuming they can see it. Um, and then, so I'm going to do, I'll take over.

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Elmer: Somebody

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John Mayer: Strangely, I can't, I can't see it Elmer

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John Mayer: I mean I logged in, also as a student. Yeah.

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Elmer: Well,

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Elmer: 80%. Okay, I'm going to end the poll

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Renee Nicole Allen: Thank you.

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Elmer: And then, and then we'll share the results.

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John Mayer: There we go.

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Elmer: And now.

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Elmer: We're sharing the results. So everyone should be able to see the results.

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Renee Nicole Allen: All right, and I can see them too. So it looks like the majority of you were able to correctly. Select the lie the lie was that I did everything right and there were no mistakes.

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Renee Nicole Allen: The other two things are true. And I'm going to use these two truths and a lie to make the framework for my talk today.

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Renee Nicole Allen: So before I do that, I want to give a little bit of background about what I teach. And what, how am I spring online went so I teach legal writing there 38 they were 38 students in my classes spring my classes went online in March, which means I taught five to our online classes.

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Renee Nicole Allen: My online presence included lecture formative assessments student presentations individual conferences and or arguments.

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Renee Nicole Allen: And I think full disclosure is warranted here last August. I completed a fully synchronous online master's degree in educational psychology

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Renee Nicole Allen: So why I had not taught online. I certainly had a good bit of experience with synchronous online learning before the spring.

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Renee Nicole Allen: And I had a good idea of what it meant to be a student in an online classroom and what worked and what didn't work. So on each slide I'll be giving you

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Renee Nicole Allen: Some tech tips and tools, you might think about using in the in the fall. If you're going to be teaching online on this slide. There's a picture of me.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Where I've turned myself into a cartoon. And so some students

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Renee Nicole Allen: I think photos will be particularly important if you are teaching in a fully synchronous classroom in the fall. If you don't have the opportunity to engage with your students in person.

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Renee Nicole Allen: And so Institute is an app where if a student doesn't feel comfortable sharing a photo of themselves. They might feel more comfortable making themselves into a cartoon Institute is free and it allows you to do that. And so here's one of my recent Institute photos.

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Renee Nicole Allen: So let's start with the lie. I did everything right and there are no mistakes. It's an absolute lie, and I could spend my whole 20 minutes talking about the mistakes.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Instead, I think I'll just say you will make mistakes. So it's a good place to start. Except it. I think the biggest thing with mistakes, particularly in a synchronous online classroom.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Is you have to acknowledge the mistake. So you can't teach around a big elephant in the room. If a mistake happens you know with your plan for using technology.

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Renee Nicole Allen: You have to just acknowledge what's going on. So, except that you will make mistakes and then acknowledge them.

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Renee Nicole Allen: One thing that helps with mistakes and technology in a synchronous online environment is if you are able to narrate what you're doing.

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Renee Nicole Allen: So in my synchronous classroom.

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Renee Nicole Allen: I often would say things like, if you see me looking off to the side, it's because I only have a laptop at home.

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Renee Nicole Allen: And I'm using my iPad, which is propped up next to me for notes and so I'll be looking from side to side periodically to check my notes.

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Renee Nicole Allen: It let your students know that you're actually tuned into them and you're paying attention to them, even though your eyes.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Might stray away from the screen and then be transparent. I think about if you're starting or trying something new.

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Renee Nicole Allen: So if you're going to try some new tech say, hey, we're going to try breakout rooms today in class for the first time I've practiced in advance. I hope it goes well.

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Renee Nicole Allen: So that students know what to expect and they're able to kind of set their expectations accordingly. And then last but certainly

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Renee Nicole Allen: Not least, and probably the most important thing on this slide is don't overdo it with tech

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Renee Nicole Allen: I've been to a ton of freedom stations in the last month that I think are excellent excellent that were excellent. And I've learned about a lot of different tools.

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Renee Nicole Allen: To use in an online environment, but you can't use all of them. And you're bound to make mistakes. If you do

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Renee Nicole Allen: So don't overdo it with technology, pick one or two things that you want to consistently use in your classroom this fall and develop a tech routine, so everything will be new.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Some things will be new to you but Everything will be new to your students this fall, allow them to develop some familiarity with the tech you're using by using some of the same tech tools and developing a routine.

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Renee Nicole Allen: In this slide is my apple emoji Samsung and other devices. There's all kinds of bit Mo, geez, and

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Renee Nicole Allen: Software that allow you to use your own image to create an emoji. I found emojis particularly helpful in the spring when we first transition to online.

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Renee Nicole Allen: I to gauge how students were coping and how they were feeling. And so, you know, not many of them told me directly with words.

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Renee Nicole Allen: But I got a lot of emojis that gave me a sense of how my students were handling the transition to online learning. So this may help you gauge where your students are

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Renee Nicole Allen: Not necessarily what they're learning those certainly you can use them with their learning. But I used emojis really to get to the heart of how they were feeling

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Renee Nicole Allen: So switching to the truths. My students seem to really enjoy synchronous sub synchronous learning supplement it with some asynchronous content I use crazy this slide.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Presentation is the policy and this is one of the slides from an audio supplemented

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Renee Nicole Allen: Presentation so pressing just like PowerPoint allows you to record audio on individual slides I did that to supplement, one of my classes.

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Renee Nicole Allen: One of the things that I think if you're going to create some asynchronous content you want to be conscious of our things like page numbers.

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Renee Nicole Allen: So when I created this slide, I was not thinking about the fact that I might like to use asynchronous content on an ongoing basis to supplement. Some of my in class teaching when we return to teaching in person.

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Renee Nicole Allen: But I put the book in and I put the page numbers in. And those are things that might change over time. So I'm going to redo a lot of

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Renee Nicole Allen: The asynchronous content that I created for the spring and my focus in doing that will be to focus on the things that don't change, like the standard of review.

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Renee Nicole Allen: But to leave page numbers and specific book references out of my slides so that I can continue to use these asynchronous tools for years to come.

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Renee Nicole Allen: One of the things that I like about these asynchronous tools in press. He is that press. He has

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Renee Nicole Allen: Analytics and tracking features that allow me to see when students have logged in to watch the audio slides and listen to the audio slides.

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Renee Nicole Allen: And how much time they spend on each slide. So I actually can gather whether they fully listened to the slides or if they just gone in and click through the slides.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Without paying attention. And so in addition to this kind of summary overview. I have a line. There's a line item that gives you each student's name students have to login with their email address.

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Renee Nicole Allen: And they're able then to track their progress so I can award attendance or give credit for their time spent in this asynchronous learning activity.

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Renee Nicole Allen: pressie, by the way.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Is has a platform for educators that I believe is $60 a year. I know schools have some schools have institutional relationships with privacy.

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Renee Nicole Allen: So if it's something you're interested in using that you're not already using might check out and whether your school has an institutional relationship with them.

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Renee Nicole Allen: The other way I supplemented my class with asynchronous content was with Posey video Posey video allowed me to take my slide platform that my students were already familiar with but throw my face in it and add in some talking points along with the slides.

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Renee Nicole Allen: What I did with this particular video because there is no tracking mechanism for prayers. The video is that I

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Renee Nicole Allen: The video had a corresponding assignment that was due on the discussion board of my learning management system. So, this year I use Blackboard ultra

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Renee Nicole Allen: My school is currently transitioning transitioning to Canvas.

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Renee Nicole Allen: And so I'll be using canvas in the future for discussion boards, but

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Renee Nicole Allen: There was absolutely no way that students could complete the assignment without watching this video and I very intentionally put the instructions and the details about the assignment throughout this 15 minute video which required students then to watch it all.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Something that I like about the video is that students do have the ability to watch it on

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Renee Nicole Allen: An advanced speed. So I think this goes up to three times speed. And so it's up to them how they watch it. I'm not monitoring or tracking that but it is important. If there's no tracking

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Renee Nicole Allen: Mechanism that there's some correlating assignment. If you need to keep attendance for these asynchronous or keep time track time and attendance for these asynchronous classroom activities.

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Renee Nicole Allen: One good thing about privacy video for accessibility purposes, is that it automatically generates a transcript. And so, and that transcript hangs around

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Renee Nicole Allen: On the actual video so students always have access to it if they watch the whole video and they need to go back and they have a question about something, he said.

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Renee Nicole Allen: They don't have to search through the whole video to find it. They can actually go back to the transcript, which can be pretty helpful.

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Renee Nicole Allen: And so the last truth was that video helped build connections. I found that to be true. A number of my students commented to me. I didn't always require students to have video on in our synchronous classroom.

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Renee Nicole Allen: But we always use video in smaller group settings and I use video in my office hours and my individual student conferences and students seem to be

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Renee Nicole Allen: Pretty excited about the ability to connect in that way. So one of the things that I plan to do this fall because I will be teaching writing online.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Is to use video or audio and photos for virtual introductions that I'll use a discussion board for and I think I actually am going to ask my students to post two truths and a lie.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Whether they do this via video or they do this with an audio recording and a picture of themselves. What I'll get from this is one, just a little bit learn a little bit about them.

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Renee Nicole Allen: They'll learn a little bit about each other, but I'll also have them say their names so that when we meet for the first time and our synchronous classroom.

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Renee Nicole Allen: I won't bless your anyone's name. I think it's very important to pronounce people's names correctly. And so that's a great way to hear them articulate

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Renee Nicole Allen: How, how I should pronounce their names. The other thing I plan to do this year is use a liquid syllabus hat tip to my colleague Rachel Smith.

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Renee Nicole Allen: And and click the link and show you an example of what a liquid syllabus looks like. This is from this is Professor Torres is liquid syllabus.

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Renee Nicole Allen: She's at Glendale Community College. I see a liquid syllabus as a living document. She's Google sites to create this one I probably will use Google sites to create mine.

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Renee Nicole Allen: But it's a great way to not only introduce your course to supplement that introduction, with some videos.

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Renee Nicole Allen: But it's also a great way to let the students know a little bit about who you are. I think this is particularly important in a classroom where you won't meet your students are highly unlikely that you will meet with your students in person.

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Renee Nicole Allen: In the fall semester. And so you'll have these links because you'll have my slides, but I'm looking forward. I'm really excited actually about building my liquid syllabus.

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Renee Nicole Allen: And last but certainly not least, if you haven't already, I strongly encourage you to check out small teaching online. While it is not geared towards law teaching there are ton of

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Renee Nicole Allen: tips that you can use to transition your class to an online learning environment.

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Renee Nicole Allen: You might be familiar with James lying small teaching. What I like about the approach.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Is that you don't you don't even have to read the whole book, you can go to the chapter specific chapter that you're interested in and just take one or two things and making one or two small changes can really change your overall course.

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Renee Nicole Allen: So that's it for me. Thank you all for listening. Thanks Kelly, for inviting me to speak here. I love to connect with everyone on Twitter. And so my Twitter handle is Prof. Alan tweets. I'd like to hear what everyone's doing as we all get ready for the fall. Thank you.

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John Mayer: Oh my gosh.

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John Mayer: That was, that was dead, and that was wonderful.

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John Mayer: Well,

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John Mayer: Why don't we try to pick up a couple of questions that are just as we're going along here.

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John Mayer: The school does not have an institutional license to students have to buy a license. I think the answer is no. If they're just viewing your stuff right

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Renee Nicole Allen: Right. They don't have to buy a license to view and i think is 60 I pay for mine and $60 a year.

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John Mayer: Uh, what about President disability accommodations you know anything about that.

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Renee Nicole Allen: No, I don't. I don't. Other than yeah I don't, other than I know some of their, their automatic transcript features, but I have no idea how it works with a reader or actually don't know that.

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John Mayer: Got it.

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John Mayer: Do you have students do videos before the first class or

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Renee Nicole Allen: So this will be my first time doing it. But yes, um, I saw in the William and Mary presentations at the idea of a class zero. So something that happens even before your actual class happens

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Renee Nicole Allen: And I plan to use Class Zero for those introductions that students will have posted in advance and also to introduce the tech routine for my class.

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John Mayer: If there's one takeaway. I got was the word liquid syllabus, which a couple of people asked about it. So I immediately googled and found three or four awesome articles about it. But do you want to try to to flesh that out a little bit more what what what's the liquid syllabus.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Um, so it's essentially a website, I think of it as a living document, it's, you know, something that is more alive than a traditional syllabus.

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Renee Nicole Allen: And it allows you to incorporate video, audio, and so in images in a way that I think just a plain text document does not

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Renee Nicole Allen: Something that might be particularly helpful in an environment where you won't meet your students in person. And yes, if you google liquid syllabus. There's a ton of information. I haven't made one before. So I'm excited about jumping into that for this ball.

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John Mayer: All right, that's great. Thank you.

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John Mayer: All right, very low friends, the floor is yours.

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Mary LaFrance: THANK YOU, JOHN greetings to everyone from sunny Las Vegas, where it is currently 105 degrees but I'm inside where it's nice and cool and I'm in my newly created home classroom.

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Mary LaFrance: As you can see,

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Mary LaFrance: I was teaching

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Mary LaFrance: Two courses this past spring that were somewhat traditional

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Mary LaFrance: ebook oriented courses with relatively heavy reading assignments and

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Mary LaFrance: So semi Socratic style discussions happening in the classroom.

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Mary LaFrance: Then we got about a week's notice to switch to remote teaching

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Mary LaFrance: So I'm one of my colleagues, several of my colleagues offered us crash courses in zoom and WebEx. And both of these were completely new to me. So I have to say that the classes were something of a blur. I

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Mary LaFrance: Really had a hard time absorbing all of that information under, under such time constraints and even after I went back and

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Mary LaFrance: Took more lessons and went through the recordings. I still had some serious doubts as to whether I'd be able to continue my class. The way I normally would. Using either one of these tools.

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Mary LaFrance: The students were quite traumatized. Of course, it was a very stressful time

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Mary LaFrance: Some of them did not have great Internet connections.

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Mary LaFrance: Many of them had sick family members or may have been six themselves lots of them had schoolchildren at home because the schools shut down quite suddenly

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Mary LaFrance: Lots of them had financial stresses and job losses. And so they were just not in a very good frame of mind for a traditional Socratic style classroom teaching

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Mary LaFrance: And nor was I in a particularly good frame of mind, either. I felt pretty traumatized and stressed and had serious doubts about whether I could carry on a decent class using either one of these platforms. So I just did not feel comfortable going ahead with normal

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Mary LaFrance: Discussion style quiet classes on either zoom or WebEx. So what I decided to do instead was to create PowerPoints with pre recorded audio and post those for my students

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Mary LaFrance: And this was also a lot of work, because I don't use PowerPoints. As a general rule, so for each class. I had to create the PowerPoints under time constraints and then do the audio recordings and get them posted in time for each class.

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Mary LaFrance: I did feel that I would be able to perform better, and it might help my students to access the material better

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Mary LaFrance: I knew I could perform better, because the whole situation was so traumatic and I was feeling so stressed.

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Mary LaFrance: That I knew if I pre recorded the lectures, then no matter how I was actually feeling I could fake it pretty well. So when I would finish up the PowerPoints.

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Mary LaFrance: Usually in the evening, but I wouldn't do the recording until the next morning and I would wake up feeling relatively energetic and so I could sound enthusiastic and upbeat.

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Mary LaFrance: And sometimes I kind of went almost into a storytelling mode, almost like I was reading stories to my students and that helped. I think help make the pre recorded PowerPoints.

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Mary LaFrance: more pleasant for the students to absorb it also enabled the students to access the classes on their own schedule.

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Mary LaFrance: The benefit of course of asynchronous teaching and they could stop and start them if they had interruptions or distractions and they could go back and revisit them.

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Mary LaFrance: Whenever they wanted to. And I also posted the PowerPoint separately in case they just wanted to go back and review a few pages of the PowerPoint without

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Mary LaFrance: Going back to the pre recorded lecture.

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Mary LaFrance: So I was actually surprised at the end of the semester. But I got my evaluations and I found that the students actually really liked the pre recorded PowerPoints.

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Mary LaFrance: I was pleasantly surprised because I have no idea how they how they would go over, um,

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Mary LaFrance: I do think that they appreciated that it was accessible to them on their own schedules and that the material was organized and I tried to present it in a way that was engaging and not monotonous.

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Mary LaFrance: Um, I did, however, want to make sure that they really engaged with the reading material because these are reading intensive traditional case book classes.

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Mary LaFrance: So before they could access the PowerPoint for each class. They had to submit answers to several questions that I posted for them that were based on the readings.

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Mary LaFrance: And these were not graded, but they had to submit answers in order to get credit for class attendance on that day and they had to submit the answers before the PowerPoint became available. I did not want them to gloss over the reading and just rely on the PowerPoints for their learning.

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Mary LaFrance: Some of the questions were pretty easy to answer, if you did the reading. Others were more in the nature of hypotheticals that required them to synthesize what they had learned

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Mary LaFrance: And address a novel situation. So it was a lot like the questions that I would ask during class, and as I said they were underrated. But in order to receive credit, credit for class attendance, they had to answer them on a good faith best efforts basis.

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Mary LaFrance: I also thought that these questions would help these questions would help them figure out whether they were getting what they needed to get out of the reading material.

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Mary LaFrance: The, there was one student on his evaluation or her evaluation who complained about the these questions and said they felt he or she felt I was not treating them as adults.

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Mary LaFrance: I making them answer these questions based on the reading. I actually don't take that criticism too seriously because these are the same kind of questions that I would ask in the classroom. If we were having a live question and answer session.

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Mary LaFrance: I'm also at one point during the semester, I had a student email me after the PowerPoint lecture.

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Mary LaFrance: To say she wasn't quite sure still wasn't quite sure of the answer to one of the hypotheticals I posed, even after she had done the PowerPoint, so that we had an email exchange to make sure she she understood

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Mary LaFrance: So I was glad to hear from that student and to see that she had thought about the question and she wanted to make sure that she did have the correct understanding

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Mary LaFrance: So I actually thought that work fairly well.

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Mary LaFrance: Now the downside of this is I do feel, I was spoon feeding them by giving them these carefully prepared PowerPoint lectures and that is not something I would normally do.

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Mary LaFrance: However, the circumstances were so exceptional that I thought a little coddling was probably warranted and it was probably the right strategy to help everyone get through the semester.

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Mary LaFrance: I did use zoom a few times and I did learn something from my best experiences with zoom my best experiences were when one person was hosting the zoom session and the other was the speaker.

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Mary LaFrance: In a few instances I hosted a guest speaker in my class and in on one occasion, I was a guest speaker for professor at another law school.

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Mary LaFrance: What I liked about these sessions was the presenter could just focus on the content and making eye contact with the students and the host could follow

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Mary LaFrance: The questions that were coming up on chat or I'll look for raised hands because personally, I find it impossible to do both. I cannot focus on speaking with the students.

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Mary LaFrance: And making eye contact and also keep looking to see what's happening on chat or looking for raised questions. It's like trying to pat my head and rub my stomach. At the same time, some people can do it. I'm not so good at it.

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Mary LaFrance: So I think if you can arrange co teaching or arrange to have a teaching assistant who can follow chat and raised hands for you. I think that would be a good use of zoom

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Mary LaFrance: Now in the summer. I'm taking all these online classes on how to teach online and I am feeling overwhelmed.

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Mary LaFrance: And so I'm experiencing it from the student perspective. And one thing that is overwhelming is I am getting a constant barrage of notifications.

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Mary LaFrance: That I have this or that assignment do or I'm supposed to post something in a discussion or respond to somebody else's discussion post or do a peer review.

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Mary LaFrance: And I can even keep track of which assignments. I've completed and which ones I have yet to do. It's just too much and it's overwhelming and it is tempting to just stop participating

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Mary LaFrance: And so I think sometimes this might be too much for the students to if they're getting poked and prodded and all the time to do a lot of different things in our survey that our school took, we found that

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Mary LaFrance: One thing the students did not like was that all the professor's were using different technologies and different platforms. So every time a student had to go to class. They had to

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Mary LaFrance: Remember what platform. It was on and deal with all these different technologies. So keeping it simple and streamlined seems to be more student friendly.

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Mary LaFrance: I learned that as a student. And that's supported by the survey that my school did another some other things we learned from our survey, some students did not like a zoom sessions.

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Mary LaFrance: Because it was. They didn't have good connections or it didn't fit their schedule.

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Mary LaFrance: And they couldn't participate in the live discussion and it was not as good if they could just just had to rely on the recording afterwards.

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Mary LaFrance: But other students did not particularly like the asynchronous assignments. They preferred the live class discussions, so there was no consensus on this.

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Mary LaFrance: The one thing that was consensus on was the students like breakout sessions. So my colleagues who use breakout sessions for their larger classes got lots of expressions of praise and gratitude from the students. So I think that's a really important thing to remember.

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Mary LaFrance: Definitely, if you're going to do zoom sessions.

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Mary LaFrance: Even if you're not doing breakout sessions, you definitely want to record and post those zoom sessions, because not every student is going to have a good connection at the right time to attend your class live where they may have other distractions.

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Mary LaFrance: Another thing that we learned from our survey about asynchronous assignments is that's really important to pay attention to how much time.

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Mary LaFrance: The students have to spend to complete those asynchronous assignments. Some students reported that

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Mary LaFrance: The amount of time they spent doing the asynchronous assignments added up to more time than they would have spent in the classroom during a normal week

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Mary LaFrance: So I think we have to be really considerate and thoughtful about how much time we're asking them to spend on the asynchronous assignments.

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Mary LaFrance: If we are overwhelming them in one class, then they might give short shrift to another professors class or they might just feel so overwhelmed that they just stopped doing the work. Get disengaged and give up and we certainly don't want that to happen.

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Mary LaFrance: So from these experiences of what have I learned from my fall planning. Well, I'm hoping that I don't wind up teaching online for a long time in the future. I'm hoping this is temporary. So I don't want my class to be too different from the way it normally would be.

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Mary LaFrance: There are so many options for asynchronous.

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Mary LaFrance: Teaching

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Mary LaFrance: Teaching assignments. I totally agree that you need to pick carefully among the different tools that are out there and pick the ones that are right for you.

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Mary LaFrance: There's a just an overwhelming array of choices. I am going to do 50% asynchronous and 50% live q&a discussions which I'll host here in my home classroom.

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Mary LaFrance: For my asynchronous assignments. I am for the most part, going to use Cali lessons, because I am familiar with those. I know there are lots of them in my field.

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Mary LaFrance: I know they've been quality control. They've been subject to peer review editing, so I know they're going to be relatively a glitch free

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Mary LaFrance: I don't usually use them for teaching, but I have recommended them to my students in the past when they have been asking me how to review for exams.

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Mary LaFrance: And the students who have followed my advice and use Cali lessons to review for exams have come back to me afterwards and told me that the Cali lessons were really helpful.

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Mary LaFrance: So that's going to be my primary tool for the asynchronous assignments. So my plan is basically hybrid Mondays, in effect will be asynchronous.

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Mary LaFrance: They will have reading assignments for the week they will have Cali lessons to complete by a certain deadline before our live Q AMP a session on Wednesday.

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Mary LaFrance: They must successfully complete the Cali lesson before the Wednesday discussion if they want to receive class attendance for that week. And in order to pass the class, they will have to submit all the clot all the Cali lessons. By the end of the semester.

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Mary LaFrance: The galley Cali lessons of course will be upgraded. Um, but I do believe that completing them successfully will be a really good way to reinforce what the students have done in their

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Mary LaFrance: Reading and I think it will set them up really nicely for the Q AMP. A sessions on Wednesdays, I think they will have more confidence in the material and we'll be able to have a much more successful Q AMP a session that way.

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Mary LaFrance: Um,

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Mary LaFrance: What, what is the downside here i am i'm reconciling myself to the likelihood that I will have to cover less material than I ordinarily would during the semester.

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Mary LaFrance: So I am in the process of whittling down my syllabus to something that I think is doable. I don't think we can cover as many cases. Because ordinarily when I have the

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Mary LaFrance: Twice a week interaction with the students. I can gauge in person, how their understanding is, and we can plow through a lot more material.

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Mary LaFrance: This in this arrangement. They're going to be self teaching a lot more and I have to focus more on reinforcing

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Mary LaFrance: Their knowledge rather than adding new knowledge. So I'm going to have to cut down on the number of cases I cover for a particular topic. Also, I may have to cut a few topics all together.

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Mary LaFrance: I think that this is a necessary sacrifice in order to have the semester be successful. And it's a sacrifice. I'm willing to make

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Mary LaFrance: In order to make sure that the students actually are successful and being able to learn the most important parts of the material. So that's what I have BACK TO YOU, JOHN

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John Mayer: Thank you. Oh, man. So many questions of

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Mary LaFrance: Good ones too.

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John Mayer: But the one that seems to be rising, the most multiple people asked is what what function or feature of your LM s do use such that people

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John Mayer: Have to that you know that people have answered quiz questions before they before you have the reveal of the PowerPoint audio didn't do understand what I'm saying.

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Mary LaFrance: Right. Yeah, I don't. I didn't use anything special for that. And if there's a way to

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Mary LaFrance: Do, but I'd love to know. Um, I basically just reminded them that you have to submit your answers before the starting time for class because that's when the PowerPoint would

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Mary LaFrance: Be available. I just use twin

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Mary LaFrance: That's what I'm familiar with and I would schedule the PowerPoint to pop up at class time and I would tell them that you have to have submitted your answers by then and I can go and check and I can see

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Mary LaFrance: you submitted your answers and it didn't submit them until after class started, you don't get class attendance for that day.

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John Mayer: Oh,

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John Mayer: So I do want to remind people that there are ways to do that in most modern LF SS. I know that for sure blackboard and Canvas Moodle.

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John Mayer: And there's even I think in ability and 20 that sort of turned out a tie or put a time thing, but something I might be wrong 20 is the one I'm least familiar with but but that's certainly a capability. Most Elvis's

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John Mayer: All right.

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John Mayer: I'm still dismissing all those questions about that. Did you have a choice as to synchronous or asynchronous or did your did your school decide that

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Mary LaFrance: Um, they basically let us all make our own decisions. So yeah, I had, I had complete discretion. Awesome. All right.

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John Mayer: And a few people asking about your setup your camera and your whatever it is your technical setup you want to talk a little bit about that.

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Mary LaFrance: Yeah, oh yeah, sure. Um, I guess.

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Mary LaFrance: External web lot of them are sold out online. So I got mine second hand off eBay, it's a

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Mary LaFrance: Logitech Logitech see 930 he

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Mary LaFrance: I got that because it has a 90 degree and my whiteboard is an eight foot panel and depending on how I position the camera, I can cover the entire width of the whiteboard.

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Mary LaFrance: So cameras usually come with, I don't know 90 degrees or 78 degrees or something less and I wanted the widest possible field of vision.

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Mary LaFrance: So that's the Logitech see 930 p

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John Mayer: We'll get into the show notes for sure the session notes.

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Mary LaFrance: A my whiteboard is

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Mary LaFrance: Just a hard board panel from Lowes costs less than 15 bucks. It's not even permanently attached to my wall. It's sitting up on chairs and stacks of books, and leaning against the wall. So it's a slight angle but

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Mary LaFrance: It still works.

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John Mayer: Very well. It was, it was the gun that wasn't fired that you're standing in front

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John Mayer: Of a whiteboard and you didn't use it.

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Mary LaFrance: Well, you know, I didn't really need any bullet points.

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Mary LaFrance: So,

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Mary LaFrance: You know, I just, I just have to remember to make sure I use the thick, thick part of the marker, right, make sure my letters are nice and thick. So I have to practice on that a little bit.

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Mary LaFrance: But I'm only going to use it for class discussions because when students make a good point.

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Mary LaFrance: In class discussions. I think most of us are our instinct is to put it on the whiteboard. Right. Okay. That's an important point. Let's think about that, or we'll get back to that in a minute. Or, you know, what are the different possibilities.

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Mary LaFrance: On board and

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Mary LaFrance: So, you know, it keeps the Q AMP. A going in that organic fashion but it keeps us focused so we don't lose track of points, so I don't have to use the whiteboard a lot, which is why something fairly primitive and cheap, I think is going to work just fine.

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Mary LaFrance: And was easy, easy enough to set up. I think the hardest part is lighting.

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Mary LaFrance: You can see a little bit of glare on the whiteboard. Um, I have. I'm using just about every spare lamp that I have in the house. I'm surrounded by lighting fixtures, which makes it a little bit warm.

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Mary LaFrance: But glare turned out not to be as bad as I feared it would be so that's basically my setup. I actually do have a level here. Mike that I'm going to use

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Mary LaFrance: So that I don't have to teach in my teacher voice like I am right now, I'd like to be able to speak more quietly like like if I'm talking to someone in office hours.

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Mary LaFrance: So I've got 11 Lear, but I need an external speaker in order to use the live leader. So I haven't finished getting that all set up yet.

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John Mayer: Very good. How do you do you, do you use lesson link or some other method to know that the students have completed their Cali lessons.

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Mary LaFrance: Well, I haven't started using them yet. So, I, I'm going to have to figure that out.

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John Mayer: Alright well

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Mary LaFrance: I'm sure that you and devils.

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John Mayer: Absolutely.

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John Mayer: All right, let's, let's, let me see if I can find one more.

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John Mayer: Do you have any guidelines for determining the amount of time that a task will take students to complete

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John Mayer: This a dad is confessing that she constantly underestimates a time

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John Mayer: You know and can see it. It's a big issue for for overloading students

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Mary LaFrance: Yeah, I think that all have difficulty figuring out how long it takes our students to complete something. Because for us, it's easy. Either we created the assignment or we know the material so well.

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Mary LaFrance: That it seems like it should be something you could do really quickly. So I think we all have that problem. Nice thing about Cali lessons is they come with their own time estimates. So that's, to me, one of the one of the advantages of using a Cali lesson for

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Mary LaFrance: Assignments. I really don't make the time

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John Mayer: Very good. Thank you. Very Alright buddy. It's time for Brittany to

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Mary LaFrance: To to take the floor.

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Brittany Raposa: Sure, thank you so much and start this up.

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Brittany Raposa: So thank you to Cali for having me. I'm going to talk about the transition to online learning with a seminar, which is a little bit different, I think, than what we've talked about so far.

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Brittany Raposa: Um, and then I will also talk about my experiences moving online with a seminar and then I am teaching a seminar of this summer. So I already used some of the lessons already for this summer that I learned from the transition

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Brittany Raposa: So I'm going to talk a little bit about the seminar that I teach and the kind of characteristics that we think about

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Brittany Raposa: When we teach in person seminars and how we can potentially preserve those characteristics. When we move to online how I tried to when I abruptly switched to online. What I learned from doing it online. And then finally,

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Brittany Raposa: How I think we can set up good seminars on lie so I teach a seminar at the law school called reproductive rights and justice, and it looks at it will first. It's very discussion based. It's not very doctrinal based it's not Socratic

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Brittany Raposa: It's very non traditional in terms of a law school type setting or a law school classroom that we think about, um,

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Brittany Raposa: We analyze the history of reproductive justice reproduction women's and individuals reproductive health.

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Brittany Raposa: Looking at it through a critical race lens of queer lens socio economic and justice theory lens and then look at other issues in relation to reproduction.

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Brittany Raposa: So as you can imagine. It was, it's always when it's in person. It's a roundtable discussion.

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Brittany Raposa: It's very conversational based and it's very personal. And so I think one of the things that we think about when we move online is we lose some of that personal right and so we instead then

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Brittany Raposa: Feel robotic I think john said in the beginning of this or we feel like we lack that personal or intimate nature. Sometimes that a seminar can break

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Brittany Raposa: And so the benefit of having seminars at law school in law school, I think, is that it allows students to think about the law and really talk about it and really apply it to social problems like I do in my class.

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Brittany Raposa: There's typically a lot of engagement and seminars. There's a lot of personal connection, it's a smaller class size on typically when we have the roundtable we're all in a circle.

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Brittany Raposa: group discussion is really comfortable there is no awkward like should I speak. Should I not speak. What's my cue when I can speak, um,

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Brittany Raposa: It's very less traditional and there's no final exam. So, I mean, in my course this summer. I'm doing a little bit of an argument in a final paper. Um, but otherwise it's very non traditional

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Brittany Raposa: So all of these things that I've already been saying of the characteristics of a seminar eight already online learning objectives, we just looks like we can't preserve those things we can't have personal connection or we can have comfortable discussion.

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Brittany Raposa: Because social cues might not be there right like we might not be able to know when it's okay to speak through we just start talking out loud in our homes. What if I'm talking over someone else.

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Brittany Raposa: It's not as easy. And so when we moved online because of coven to me and

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Brittany Raposa: It forced us to obviously to move into emergency in line instruction and there was a week to prepare to move classes online.

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Brittany Raposa: And so, to be honest I panicked and thought, How can I preserve the characteristics of a seminar on line.

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Brittany Raposa: On zoom, which is the platform that I use. And so I really questioned, you know, how am I going to do this. And similarly to the other presenters today, um,

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Brittany Raposa: You know, in that week's time we were trained on electronic platforms and we were trained on kind of technological issues, but I don't think necessarily we were really thinking about at the time because of the short amount of time.

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Brittany Raposa: And kind of the urgency to move online. We weren't thinking about social presence and enough at that time. And how could we

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Brittany Raposa: So social presence to me and online learning environments refers to the degree to which a learner, like the student obviously feels personally connected with other students in the room and the instructor

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Brittany Raposa: And creating a social presence online is something that I was most worried about

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Brittany Raposa: So what I did before the class moved online and that week period, we had to prepare I surveyed my students and asked, What are you worried about

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Brittany Raposa: With our class going online and this is something that I'm going to do for my fall classes because I am personally teaching online in the fall as well. It's something I did in the summer, and I am also

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Brittany Raposa: I also gave a survey to my students who I was teaching in the summer online. And I asked them to tell me what their worries were and I got a lot of results and so

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Brittany Raposa: Students for my seminar were worried that it was going to feel more lecture based like I was going to have to talk out the talk at that

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Brittany Raposa: At them more rather than having a discussion, they were worried about it feeling in personal um they were worried, it would be awkward and it would create this awkwardness of when do I speak. When do I not, I'm not sure.

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Brittany Raposa: I'm they didn't know a lot of them. This is a very common comment. I'm not sure when it's going to be okay to speak, or interject a thought. Um,

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Brittany Raposa: And then a lot of them were concerned because it was. It's a very personal class, and it's very I work with them one on one on their writing skills as well. And they were worried about not being able to just open, you know, come into my open door in my office and really work with me anymore.

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Brittany Raposa: So when we moved online in the short amount of time that I had to move online. I did change some things. And so when we were in person, we would discuss the case law we would discuss legal theory, but then we would discuss the issues.

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Brittany Raposa: And we would apply those issues to society today and we would try to come up with ways to solve some of the injustice.

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Brittany Raposa: And so online I pretty much did it in the same way we just did it live on zoom

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Brittany Raposa: And so we had online group discussions and then I set up a forum so students could continue participating in the discussion and it's mandatory that a student at least post twice on each forum discussion question.

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Brittany Raposa: Um, I set up electronic one on one meetings and then I found myself having to give them more written feedback. Since I wasn't there in person to help them one on one as much

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Brittany Raposa: Or sometimes the students weren't comfortable asking for an online meeting and, particularly, you know, many of our students were sick with covert or their family members were sick, so the difficulty with one on one meeting and scheduling was president

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Brittany Raposa: And then we did oral arguments in the

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Brittany Raposa: I'm in this past in the one that I taught in the spring, because they were half of the class was arguing to overturn Roe vs. Wade and the other one was arguing to not overturn Roe vs. Wade and

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Brittany Raposa: We were going to mimic in person, this courtroom type style to finalize and finish off the semester. And of course, we couldn't do it in person, but I did. I used a webinar feature where on the screen was

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Brittany Raposa: The two students arguing and the judges panel and then the students were pant were attendees similar to what's what's happening now.

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Brittany Raposa: So I kind of did it abruptly and honestly didn't change much, because of the short amount of time. And I kind of just took us in the classroom and put us online and expecting the discussion to be the same.

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Brittany Raposa: But discussion honestly wasn't as lively and it wasn't as engaging as it was in person. And so it really made me realize that

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Brittany Raposa: One of I think the major

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Brittany Raposa: Challenges of online learning is that the teacher and the learners. Right. They are in different places. So now they're in completely different places and it creates the potential for students to feel a lack of social connection with the professor in the students

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Brittany Raposa: So I realized this for seminars, especially so social interaction with the professor and the other learners in the room.

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Brittany Raposa: Was is really instrumental to a seminar. It's instrumental in motivating the learners efforts to learn and to engage and it does promote satisfaction with an online course.

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Brittany Raposa: And so like I said I think much literature and discussion centers around, um, you know, instructional design and technological features. When we're moving online and not a lot on social presence.

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Brittany Raposa: So I learned a lot when I moved to emergency online instruction and immediately thought before my summer class starts, I need to research and and really come up with ways to create a greater social presence and connection in the classroom.

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Brittany Raposa: So what I started doing for summer then was created some policies. So I always ask students to have their video on a lot of students, I noticed when we abruptly move to online learning. They had their videos off.

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Brittany Raposa: Um, and I teach a very small class. It had 12 people before and now I have 14. Um, and so seeing everyone on the screen was not overwhelming as having like a 100% class.

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Brittany Raposa: And I asked them to me when not speaking so we can kind of create an environment where it was easy to focus

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Brittany Raposa: And I asked them to raise their hand and zoom to enter into the discussion queue to try to eliminate some of the awkwardness and then zoom cat categorizes them in the order they raised their hand.

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Brittany Raposa: Um, now I use breakout rooms, a lot, which I'll talk about a little in a minute. Um, and then I require participation in the forum still to continue discussion and then I did increase this summer.

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Brittany Raposa: Class participate participation in their final grade. So I increase the amount of points on class participation is afforded

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Brittany Raposa: So the lessons that I learned really helped me develop the seminar for this summer. And I think they will help me develop develop the my courses moving forward if they are ever online.

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Brittany Raposa: I think that there was a need to create a stronger social presence in the online learning environment, making students more comfortable with it.

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Brittany Raposa: Not only with the online platform and that they're comfortable with the technological features, but they're comfortable with me.

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Brittany Raposa: And speaking to me and with the students in the classroom and they felt an almost like an interpersonal connection to everyone in the class.

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Brittany Raposa: And then I wanted to increase the amount of social connection between the students and the professor and with each other as a result of that.

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Brittany Raposa: So I wanted to make sure that the students were going to be talking a lot to me in the sessions and in classes, but also talking a lot to each other.

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Brittany Raposa: And then I also wanted them.

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Brittany Raposa: You know, similarly to work together to build their own little online community. So I wanted, I didn't want my class to stop at the class I wanted students to continue working together.

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Brittany Raposa: Outside of my class. So then they would continuously feel comfortable in my seminar talking to each other and participating

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Brittany Raposa: And then finally, I noticed and learned that there really is a need for more feedback and communication with students about their progress.

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Brittany Raposa: I think that just because they aren't in our buildings anymore. They never know, or are always questioning how they're doing. So I'm

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Brittany Raposa: In this summer. Now I'm incorporating a lot more feedback, not only on their progress on their written assignments or anything like that, but just on their level of discussion and communication and how they're really comprehending the material.

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Brittany Raposa: So all of those things. And all of those lessons I learned for sport or had me create this and this is adding so much more than I did when we move to emergency online instruction.

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Brittany Raposa: I use breakout rooms, all the time. Students love them.

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Brittany Raposa: And so yeah, I only have a class of 14 students but I post questions to the students and then

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Brittany Raposa: I put them in small groups of two or three each. And they each share and have a discussion with each other. And then when we come as a large class each group then discusses what they discuss

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Brittany Raposa: Students that increase the level of participation like tenfold from when we went emergency online instruction students love the parents share. It's almost like they

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Brittany Raposa: Are working with the students in the group individually before they share to the rest of the students. It makes them more comfortable and it really has them engage more

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Brittany Raposa: In breakout rooms to a lot of times I'll break them into two sections or four sections, just this Monday, and we were arguing

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Brittany Raposa: You know, half of the class represented husband half of the class represented wife, and who owns the embryos. So they were in breakout rooms.

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Brittany Raposa: One side representing husband on one side, representing wife, and then we came as a class to argue the participation, like I said, was tenfold.

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Brittany Raposa: Um, and then sometimes I'll just break them into smaller groups to answer discussion questions themselves and then I will enter each group and engage in their discussion on a smaller scale.

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Brittany Raposa: And then we won't come back and share as the class will move on to a different topic so

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Brittany Raposa: I always to have students work with different students in the class. So each student is always engaging with the entirety of their class just in different ways and engaging with me.

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Brittany Raposa: I think that the use of breakout rooms and parents share and having them formulate arguments and then argue against each other. Really, really made or is making for tremendous discussion and it really makes it feel again like it's a seminar, even though it is online.

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Brittany Raposa: So I also use the poll feature you all were exposed to that today with the zoom polling I do the same thing. I'm after each class I asked them.

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Brittany Raposa: How the class made them feel today in because we deal with heavy subject matter. And so I asked them how the class made them feel that day. Sometimes, um,

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Brittany Raposa: I'll always ask them if they're comfortable with the material on a level of, you know, high, medium, low

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Brittany Raposa: And so if I know that we need to keep reviewing something because something that we're missing. I think from being online are those faces like it's easy to see faces of confusion.

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Brittany Raposa: In person, but it's not as easy online. So I'm constantly pulling them and asking them. How's it going, are you following with the material. Are you are you

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Brittany Raposa: Engaging in the discussion, the way you want to be. And also, is the online platform. Do you have any suggestions. I'm constantly asking the students. What could work better if something's not working. I'm involving them in their learning and

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Brittany Raposa: Their liking it a lot. I think it creates and just further creates that personal connection.

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Brittany Raposa: And so then I created virtual office hours. So I use zoom for those and I set up the waiting room feature.

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Brittany Raposa: Um, and I let students into my office in the order they enter the waiting room so that allows me to still work one on one with students. It was just like the

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Brittany Raposa: It would be just like dropping into my office hours instead of waiting outside of my door years waiting in the waiting room on zoom and students love those. So it you know students come to either further the discussion that we had in class, or maybe for writing support one on one.

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Brittany Raposa: And then something that I also did is that I started incorporating asynchronous methods. So instead of just talking to them about the law and barking at them about it.

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Brittany Raposa: Like I did when we went on emergency or an emergency online teaching now I pre record something so like for example I pre recorded a history of Roe vs. Wade

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Brittany Raposa: That they had to watch before coming to class classroom time is just for discussion and no longer to really talk about doctrine. The students really liked that.

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Brittany Raposa: Um, so when we moved to emergency online instruction, I would talk to them about the law for first chunk of class and then I would then we would have a discussion. So now I just record anything that I want them to watch prior and then we just use class time for discussion.

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Brittany Raposa: And then I also set up virtual study groups for the students. Um, and so I set up the study groups myself. I told them that if they want to switch groups or, you know, do whatever

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Brittany Raposa: They could, but the students and it's been working right. So the students meet once a week outside of the classroom to work on their briefs that they have to write for my class, um,

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Brittany Raposa: And just to continue their conversation about the material I set them up through zoom through our library and I'm not really sure how that works. If you want more information on that. I can get it. Um, but

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Brittany Raposa: Again, I think it's just something that created those personal connections that that comfort and and the the willingness to feel like a seminar.

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Brittany Raposa: And then something else that I definitely noticed that I had to do was give immediate meaningful feedback in a forum. So I had my students post and discussion forums in the spring.

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Brittany Raposa: But, you know, most students wouldn't really reply or sometimes I wouldn't. There was so much going on in the spring, not only

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Brittany Raposa: You know, preparing for online instruction, but I'm also the director of our support and as many of you on this call know the bar exam was a little bit in flux. So, I found myself not really acknowledging a lot of the posts, um,

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Brittany Raposa: Which is detrimental so

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Brittany Raposa: One of the things that you I think all professors should do if we have discussion posts or forums is that you have to acknowledge the posts acknowledging them and commenting on them makes them feel

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Brittany Raposa: Seen it makes them feel heard and it will it will force them or create the desire to engage even more.

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Brittany Raposa: And then finally I just note that noted the importance to create safe.

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Brittany Raposa: online spaces. So where everyone was comfortable where everyone had an open mind and where everyone

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Brittany Raposa: Respected one another. So I started the class in the seminar by by talking about difference in opinion. I mean, it's reproductive justice. So it's a. It could be a controversial topic.

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Brittany Raposa: Um, and we talked about what we knew about reproductive justice coming in. I had everyone share a personal story or in the question was along the lines of

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Brittany Raposa: How have you ever encountered a reproductive justice in justice, whether it was you, a family member or something you watched on TV or reading and I found that everyone kind of sharing personal stories, opening up to one another.

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Brittany Raposa: A discussion about having an open mind and respect really made students feel comfortable. So I can't stress enough how well the seminar is going this summer. I'm in conjunction to the emergency remote star and all of these all of these pieces I think really are making it successful.

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Brittany Raposa: And then I just wanted to put some things that I think maybe we all, I think, as educators should consider when we're moving online seminar or not.

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Brittany Raposa: I'm always remember your out an outline your learning objectives, make sure they're still present online. I'm

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Brittany Raposa: All the obviously test your content and technology early. Um, and then I would stress.

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Brittany Raposa: Point three, which is something that I'm really working on and I want to talk to my law school about so we can work on as a whole is

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Brittany Raposa: Not just focusing on technology and instructional design but consider how to foster social presence make students feel that interpersonal connection that they're not getting because they're not in the classroom.

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Brittany Raposa: And then finally, just to consider how the transition opens up new opportunities, honestly, the breakout room feature for me created opportunities that I didn't have in the classroom and

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Brittany Raposa: It really allows students to work together on a smaller scale and more intimately than in the classroom where I didn't really have that opportunity because conversations collide.

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Brittany Raposa: And so there are opportunities moving to online. And if we can start picturing them in that way, then I think it would just help us create our classes.

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Brittany Raposa: But that is all I have.

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John Mayer: That was great. Thank you very much. Somebody questions, questions for all of you. And we have time for questions, which is wonderful.

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John Mayer: I'm gonna I'm gonna bite into a MIDI one first. You, you, you said you want to do.

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John Mayer: I don't know if you said you required your students to turn their cameras on but you, but how do you balance the two. The requesting are requiring the

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John Mayer: Cameras on with the students who are in apartments with kids or homes or or other other reasons why they wouldn't want to turn their cameras on. And this is not just a question for you, but for all of you.

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Brittany Raposa: Yeah. So for me, one of the things I do tell students if they absolutely don't feel comfortable. They don't, they don't have to. I just asked that they put their picture because you can put your picture on zoom, if not on. I think that I've created or

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Brittany Raposa: I think I've created a comfortable enough space where sometimes the children are attending class on the left of the student and I i think that's okay so I let them know

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Brittany Raposa: That if I see a pet or a child or a parent or anything, please, don't worry about it. And I think it's all about making the student feel comfortable, but I do say, you know, I would never force someone or make it mandatory. That's just me.

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Brittany Raposa: But I strongly encourage it and try to make them feel as comfortable as possible.

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John Mayer: Very good and Renee, I think, I think you said something about people using institute or or other avatars as a as a proxy to to replace their, their videos if they wanted to. Right.

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Renee Nicole Allen: I'm trying to be more flexible. I think one of the things that worked well for me is I use WebEx training. And so the way that setup you don't get the grid view so cameras aren't really cameras on for everyone. Isn't that meaningful.

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Renee Nicole Allen: But for our last class or less two classes are used WebEx meeting which allows you to have the grid view, kind of like what you see in, zoom, but I gave them advance notice of that so

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Renee Nicole Allen: Everyone knew and. And again, I would have been forgiving if no one, you know, people didn't want to appear on it, but everyone knew that it was coming so wasn't a surprise.

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John Mayer: Very good. So just some quick technical questions of

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Mary LaFrance: People, I'm going to

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Go ahead.

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Mary LaFrance: Oh, I'm in the in the spring. I did not require them to turn their cameras on in the fall. I will encourage them to, but I'm not going to require it because I'm sure there'll be days that people just don't want to be seen. And that's okay.

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John Mayer: I get that. All right. So just some quick quick tech questions of what LM s were you using prefer Brittany in your class.

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Brittany Raposa: Yeah, so, uh, we use. And I don't know if it's common everywhere. And I think it's an institutional design. It's called bridges. So it's like a, it's like a

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Brittany Raposa: Canvas, but it's bridges and I think it's unique to our university, I think, I think other universities might use it but it just, it was a system that was created in institutionally I think

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All right.

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Brittany Raposa: It has the same format and it has a. It has a forums tab.

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John Mayer: Good what what platform. Did you all use for recording lectures and where did you post your recordings up

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Mary LaFrance: Today I thought you said you refresh, or did but

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Mary LaFrance: I recorded mine on just on PowerPoint. And then I had someone on our staff convert them to a format that was accepted by twin because twin would not accept

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Mary LaFrance: PowerPoints with audio so I don't remember what they converted them to to put them on twin because it's very low.

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Mary LaFrance: Capacity.

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John Mayer: Probably NP force. Yeah, which is what YouTube is

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Renee Nicole Allen: Okay. Um, so, yes. I use privacy. Privacy allows me to share with a link. And so I just posted the links to all of the policies on our on Blackboard ultra on our course page.

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Brittany Raposa: Yeah, and I just recorded on zoom, even if it was a pre recording. I just played it like I was presenting to someone and recording it and then uploaded it as an MP4 to our course page.

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John Mayer: Right, good. All right.

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Brittany Raposa: And someone kind of asked what the recording of my class I'm

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Brittany Raposa: Someone asked if it was confidential. I asked the students beforehand if they would feel comfortable with me recording it or not because of the nature of the class, and they all wanted the class recorded

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Brittany Raposa: So I don't know if I would have done that, if a student was uncomfortable with it. But because they were all on board and all wanted to record it. I did.

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John Mayer: Yeah, it could be, it could be, it could be dicey for for all for all this with so much recording of classes.

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John Mayer: I mentioned Supreme Court Justice hearings in the future. We're going to be interesting.

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John Mayer: How it looks when when soon as we're waiting in the waiting room, you know, and let's say it was taken a long time with a particular student. Is there a way to pop in and say to them, this is going to take a few minutes or something like that.

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Brittany Raposa: Yeah, so you can actually chat, the waiting room so I always had a message that said, Thanks for waiting. I'm

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Brittany Raposa: You'll be entered into the room and the order you came in. Currently, with a student, but looking forward to talking to you soon. And I'd make sure I just copy and paste that message like every five minutes or every 10 minutes

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John Mayer: Good. So a question for all of you. How long does it take the plan. The question is exactly this. How long does it take to plan the lesson. I think the bigger question is, is how much effort to faculty have to put into preparing, you know, a class at a course for the fall

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Brittany Raposa: I think

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Brittany Raposa: I'm

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John Mayer: Rather rather you're honest with them. Absolutely.

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Brittany Raposa: And yeah, I'm like, I would say so. I'm currently preparing for the fall, but I'm also, you know, preparing the students for the bar. So,

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Brittany Raposa: I've got like a dual role. Um, but I would say that it's going to take a sufficient amount of hours. If I had to guess, I wouldn't be surprised and saying that every week in the summer 30 hours a week to planning for the fall would be extreme. I think that would be realistic.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Yeah, I'm over I probably spend way too much time planning for my class.

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Renee Nicole Allen: Anyway, so

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Renee Nicole Allen: I'm probably not the right person. I asked this question to I've always use the slides and I put a ton of time into them and I rarely reuse them from year to year. Um, but I will say that, you know, if you are someone who is

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Renee Nicole Allen: preoccupied by the sound of your own voice, and it annoys you like the sound of my voice annoys me

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Renee Nicole Allen: Then that makes the recordings. The video the audio, I think, take a ton of time because I want them to sound. Perfect. And I don't have to sound perfect, but I just

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Renee Nicole Allen: You know, if I trip over one word and I know that I can do it all again because I'm recording it then I I probably do it all again. It's the Taipei. I guess in me, but

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Renee Nicole Allen: I have not yet started preparing for the fall, but I i plan this transition from writing to prep in mid June and it probably is going to take me six weeks or so to have at least the first half of the semester together.

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Mary LaFrance: So in the spring when I did the pre recorded PowerPoints that did take a lot of time because I had not used PowerPoints before so I had to create them from scratch for both of my classes.

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Mary LaFrance: With no advance time to prepare. So that was really time consuming and it does take a while to do the audio recordings. I love

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Mary LaFrance: I found I got better at it. As time went on, and I was able to do them more quickly in terms of overall planning for the fall

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Mary LaFrance: I I've already started doing a lot of that. And I just tried to do a little bit every day. So I will be all stressed and panicked.

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Mary LaFrance: At the end of July or beginning of August, so I don't really know internal how much time I'm putting into it but

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Mary LaFrance: I feel like if I start early. Then I'll have more time to deal with obstacles or make decisions and like one of the toughest decisions is what am I going to cut out of the syllabus. Well, so I'm going to be, you know, whittling down my syllabus gradually over the next month or show

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John Mayer: Well, all right, two more questions. And one of them is sort of the balance question people saying, if you're if you're giving them Cali lessons. If you're giving them pre recorded videos.

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John Mayer: And you kind of touched on it, Mary, just a second ago, you know, are you, reducing the amount that you're that you're going to teach me or how do you decide how to balance or or create a course that covers the same amount of material. If you, if you're adding material.

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John Mayer: Anybody want to pick up, pick that one up.

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Mary LaFrance: Well, I'll start. Since I talked about already. Yes. Um, I discovered, you know, about a week ago I accepted the reality that I will have to cover less material.

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Mary LaFrance: Because I'm not there to push through the material in person, twice a week for 85 minutes per class and for the students to self teach. I know that is going to take longer, even with one Q AMP a session for per week so

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Mary LaFrance: I do believe that the learning process will take longer. This way that it has in the past.

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John Mayer: All right, one more or less. You want to drop in and the other balance issue anybody. But if the question is, it's come up in in previous sessions. I call it the last Student Question

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John Mayer: How do you get students who are motivated to participate in discussions or what do you do if they're if they're trying to go to class, so to speak, and not at engage

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John Mayer: To be punitive with with grades on discussions or are you encouraging or what, what, what have you got for us.

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Mary LaFrance: And my plan is to post quest, a number of questions in advance so they know

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Mary LaFrance: The major questions I'm going to ask, and I am planning to do more cold calling that I have in the past.

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Renee Nicole Allen: And one of the things that I think helps is then I plan to do this a little differently in the fall. I usually do random group work and

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Renee Nicole Allen: So my breakouts in the spring were random. I think I'm going to have permanent group assignments. So they'll, they'll know who their group members are and I find that that accountability to the group.

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Renee Nicole Allen: kind of keeps people on track and engage with whatever's going on in class and I also, I also find that I hear about it when folks are not participating and contributing to their groups as they should be.

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John Mayer: Ready, you get you get last word.

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Brittany Raposa: Yeah, so I was going to do something a lot similar I think I'm going to increase the group work, honestly, because of how much positive feedback, our entire university gone on breakout rooms and group work.

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Brittany Raposa: So I think that that's something I'm going to do. I'm also thinking about kind of taking the medical school model and

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Brittany Raposa: quizzing them before class. So before you attend the class, you have to do a quiz on the material. So I'm ensuring that they're doing them. The reading or any material before coming to class. So that's something I've been looking into

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John Mayer: Excellent. Folks, all of you. Thank you so much. That was wonderful, for once, we're gonna end almost on time. Oh, one minute. It just turned over. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it to the attendees. There's one more class next Tuesday. We look forward to seeing you stay healthy.